Submitted by: Ted Campbell
Current wording:
Article 939 Tires
At ADS-recognized competitions for Training division only, pneumatic tires and/or wire
wheels may be allowed at the discretion of the Organizing Committee. (See Appendix
CD-E. Quick Reference Guide for CDEs.)
Suggested wording:
Article 939 Tires
At ADS-recognized competitions pneumatic tires may be used in Training,
Preliminary and Intermediate divisions provided that the wheel on which they are
mounted is engineered for use on a carriage. Tire tread type is optional. The use
of wire spoke wheels is limited to use in the Training division, at the discretion of
the Organizing Committee and approved as safe by the event TD and Ground
Jury.
Reason for change:
Many or most carriage makers are selling vehicles with these modern design wheels.
Many years of experience has shown these wheels to be safe. Therefore there is no
longer a safety concern except with the vehicles that compete with the bicycle type tires.
These need to be approved as safe by the ground jury and the TD.
Member Name: Kathleen Schmitt
ReplyDeleteMember #: 12297
RCP#9
At first glance I was excited about this change but then I saw some holes in how it might be interpreted. I, on occasion, compete my VSE using a Hyperbike for at least marathon, if not all 3 phases. While my VSEs are quite capable of moving beyond training level competition, I am forced to stay at training because so many officials mistakingly assume my wheels are pneumatic. I have solid rubber tires on a polymer wheel rim. The wheel rims on a Hyperbike are not specifically engineered for carriage driving. They are adapted from BMX bicycle wheels. BMX bicycles take quite a pounding and are capable of handling quite a bit of pounding and torque. Extensive engineering has gone into the design of the Hyperbike. That engineering includes the use of these wheels. The Hyperbike is a durable, well balanced and safe vehicle. Because it is “different”, many officials seem reluctant to allow their use. Sadly, they seem to forget how different the modern marathon vehicles were when they were first introduced. Imagine where we would be if they had been shunned when first introduced.
If the wording remains as is, I can only imagine that those who wish to prevent the use of Hyperbikes would use “engineered for use on a carriage” as justification to disallow them at all levels.
It is too late for this year but perhaps a rule specifically allowing the use of Hyperbikes at all levels of VSE competition might be in order.
Thank You
Kathleen Schmitt
My name is: Tamara Woodcock
ReplyDeleteMy member number is: 017580
#9: Proposed change is acceptable. This makes use of modern materials and construction techniques.
We agree that safety rationale for excluding pneumatic tire is less clear than previously.
ReplyDeleteHowever, we find the wording of the rule vague and difficult to enforce. What exactly is "engineered to be used on a carriage"?
A simpler wording such as " At ADS-recognized competition, for Training division only, wire wheels may be allowed at the discretion of the Organizing Committee and must be approved as safe by the event TD. At ADS-recognized competitions, pneumatic tires NOT on wire wheels may be used with no requirement that tires be smooth."
Respectfully,
Marcy Eades #14025
Mark Eadaes #14025 a
Carol Ilacqua
ReplyDeleteADS# 12037560
RCP #9 Article: CD 939- Re: pneumatic tires
I agree with the proposed change. My reason is that I have found the sturdy pneumatic tires to be completely safe. For an ADS show in 2019, I had to use a presentation vehicle rather than my pneumatic-tired marathon carriage for dressage because the hard rubber tires I had on order since 2018 took two years to arrive, to the tune of $2000. This kind of unnecessary expense is the type of thing that prohibits many people from showing. Not every driver has $2000 to "waste" on a second set of tires.
support - Dana Bright ADS # 4436
ReplyDeleteRCP#9 I don't know enough about this topic either - I can say from personal experience that it is certainly possible to damage one of the new, modern, pneumatic tired wheels beyond repair. I wish that I could endorse this rule change as it would make life easier and less expensive to have only one set of wheels but I don't have enough information to make that decision. I am hoping that when the decision is made it will be based on hard data and not conjecture, wild fancy or the science of facebook.
ReplyDeleteCarol Hunter
ADS #12335
> Member Name: Gail Thomas
ReplyDelete> ADS # 14350
> RCP #9
> Proposal: At ADS-recognized competitions pneumatic tires may be used in Training, Preliminary and Intermediate divisions provided that the wheel on which they are mounted is engineered for use on a carriage. Tire tread type is optional. The use of wire spoke wheels is limited to use in the Training division, at the discretion of the Organizing Committee and approved as safe by the event TD.and Ground Jury.
>
> Please leave this rule as is.
Member Name: Patricia Anselm ADS# 13621
ReplyDeleteRCP #9 – I am in favor; newer carriage and wheel/tire design make this proposed change an excellent move
I’m in favor. In Holland they are competing up to non-FEI advanced with the modern pneumatic carriage tires.
ReplyDeleteTracey Morgan
ReplyDeleteADS # 13258
RCP #9 agree
Deborah Bevan. Member 4712
ReplyDeleteRCP # 9
I agree with opening up the use of pneumatic tires for prelim.
— by giving organizers this option they could encourage entries in their region.
— this would be advantageous to the horse as in some areas where deep footing conditions make it more stressful on the horse.
Rochelle Temple
ReplyDeleteADS Life Member #5096
RCP 9: Do not agree
RCP #9
ReplyDeleteGayle Heiring ADS number 7278
Allowing a type of pneumatic tires to preliminary and intermediate is again adding cost to the sport. Let people come into training in a welcoming and safe way. Once at preliminary keep the same standards we have today. Otherwise people will determine what tires are fastest on what terrain and to be competitive you’ll need to purchase and change tries for different competitions. That will result in less safe conditions as mistakes will be made in changing tires. No one should need to spend more money in a sport that is already very expensive. Leave it be.
Member Name: Suzy Stafford Membership #: 8907 RCP#:9
ReplyDeleteI approve of this change
Esther R Wright ( Boots)
ReplyDeleteLife member #5200
#9 yes
ADS number 12039070 - Leslie Granger
ReplyDeleteRCP#9 - Agreed
Kevin & Marcia Fetherston - ADS Member # 3797240
ReplyDeleteRCP #9. Article CD939
I agree
Submitted by Ann McClure ADS #1190
ReplyDeleteArticle RCP # 9 – Agree
Submitted by Carole Grimsley, member number 167100
ReplyDeleteRCP #9
Article: CD 939
My comment: Don’t muddy the waters. Everyone now understands the difference between pneumatic and hard wheels. This issue will create a hardship on event administration to determine if the pneumatic wheels are legal or not. Either leave the rule as is, or open it all up to any wheel.
Cheryl Pratt Rivers ADS# 032720 on proposed rule changes for 2021
ReplyDeleteI write to comment on proposed rule changes for 2021. I am a long time driver who has competed in both Pleasure Shows and CDEs from the training to the advanced level and have competed in Europe as well. I have attended several world championships as a spectator as well.
I am embarrassed that I have never paid much attention to rule change proposals before. This year though you have gotten my attention and I am writing with a sense of urgency and a deep disappointment at the direction of a couple of the changes. I appreciate the effort that people put into these changes, and support most of them. I oppose those that I believe will discourage and reduce participation in our sport which I believe is at risk for survival.
RCP#9- Support. This will help increase participation as it gives more flexibility to competitors.
Name: Tracey Turner
ReplyDeleteADS # 2181656
RCP #9
I have not driven a carriage with pneumatic tires, but have considered getting one. If there is no discernable advantage or disadvantage to these versus hard wheels, I have no objection to this proposed change.
I support this change.
Mary Baillie ADS# 12024620
ReplyDeleteI train my small pony all winter in Aiken SC and have no end of trouble with deep sand in the area. I would LOVE to have pneumatics on my Carriage but have been unable to use them as I show Preliminary and cannot be changing my wheels for every show. They would make all the difference in the weight of my Tadpole carriage as it’s narrow hard rubber wheels sink in and create too much drag in the sand.
I can’t wait to put Pneumatics on all my carriages!!!
Thanks for your consideration!!
Pamela Miller 8007 RCP #9
ReplyDeleteSeems time to accept pneumatics. No hard statistics but we broke over 20 standardbreds for harness racing on jog carts with pneumatic tires. No collapsing wheels. They are lighter and easier to pull. I bet lots of you used them to train young horses. Good for smaller ponies. Good on sand and mud. It’s getting harder to find venues with a surface perfect for dressage. This could be an equalizer especially for the smaller equines.
Price Story member 9181
ReplyDelete9. Yes. In Europe they drive through Intermediate with pneumatic tires and do it without problems. These wheels are made for the competition, not the old bike wheels. Please pass this so those of us that live on sand can stop having to change wheels.
Member Name: Teresa Jump Membership #:12026210 RCP#:8
ReplyDeleteDear committee:
I'm writing this in response to the proposed rule change regarding the carriage wheel width changes.
What is ADS thinking? This sport is already having a difficult time filling the events with enough competitors. Now, you want to change the requirements so all vehicles are the same widths. Who are we helping here? As an organizer and driver, it looks like the only person that will benefit from this rule change will be the volunteer organizer, requiring less volunteers to help set cones.
As an organizer, at Clay Station Horse Park, we consider our volunteers as very special people and treat them with the utmost respect and gratitude. Because this is also where the new and upcoming drivers will come from, so looking at it as an organizer, we do not want less volunteers, we want more. This is just one take on this rule change.
Now let's get to the economics of this. Training and Preliminary drivers make up a HUGE percentage of ADS members; NOT the advanced drivers. These drivers come into this sport on a smaller budget and maybe a carriage that is safe but does not meet the requirements of the ADS rule change. So, do we want to discourage them from becoming members and competing? I don't think that is a very good idea!
ADS needs to stop looking toward the FEI, USEF and Europe as a guideline. Let's keep ADS as a uniquely American organization that works for us here!
Clay Station Horse Park,
Teresa Jump, organizer and driver.
Debbi Packard, organizer and driver.
NAME: ERICA ROBB
ReplyDeleteADS#: 6951990
RCP# 9: Oppose. This RCP is too vague and leaves it to the Organizer/TD to interpret and enforce. First, does everyone mean “semi-pneumatic” when they say “pneumatic?” I was ringside when a pneumatic tire blew and it was a good thing it was a small class of experienced ponies and drivers. How shall we define “engineered for use on a carriage?” Or are we trying to address the *wheel* vs the *tire*? I think this proposal needs clarification.
Kasey Ashley, my ADS member number 11536.
ReplyDeleteRCP No. 9
I agree
RCP#9
ReplyDeleteTasha Wilkie ADS #8572
Support, but the wording needs to be clarified as to what mounting is considered “engineered for use on a carriage,” and who decides that it is.